Former National Secretary of the defunct Action Congress, AC, and chieftain of the Arewa Consultative Forum, ACF, Dr Usman Bugaje has described the All Progressives Congress, APC-led government, right from the time of formerl President Muhammadu Buhari down to the current President Bola Tinubu administration, as a disaster.
He equally threw his weight behind the candidacy of Prince Adfewole Adebayo of the Social Democratic Party, SDP, saying he has the character, competence and the courage to do the right things, which is what the country needs at this time to move forward.
In this interview, he spoke on a wide range of issue including the Arewa Consultative Forum, ACF’s response to the APC’s national chairman’s call on the north to support Tinubu in 2027, his thoughts on rotation of presidency between North and South, why President Tinubu may get the Goodluck Jonathan treatment in 2027 and the kind of leader that Nigerian needs in 2027 among other issues.
With the rejection of comments by the ACF, are you now saying that this idea that the South will do eight years and the North will do eight years is already off the table?
I think this has been a very familiar conversation in the last 25 years. But, I also think that a lot has changed, making that kind of conversation outdated. Yes, politics is about popular participation and inclusion; people need to have good reasons to be able to participate, but I think what has happened in the last 25 years is that we have tried these models of North and South and all that, and the country is only going down the drain. So, I think it is time to start a new conversation; it is time to start rethinking how we can have democracy with development. We’re having democracy with all these noise about North and South, East and West and what have you, yet, the country is not developing. If anything, it’s de-developing and going down the drain. All the indices of development are taking a nosedive. So, I would rather say that we must recognize every part of this country and be inclusive. I think we will be losing out on the challenges that are facing us if we continue with all the talks about North and South.
I would rather be a part of the new conversation that thinks about what team that can fix this country, which is about to break down, a country that is about to be run aground by reckless and irresponsible politicians who have held onto power in the last 25 years. They are not even ashamed of the fact that they have not performed well because they are still talking about ambitions. Everybody has an ambition to be one thing or the other. People are talking about their turn and their turn but what have they done with those turns? People are destroying this country. We’re not going to allow that, we can’t continue with these kinds of conversations. As I said, we have to recognise everybody, include everybody and consult, but this should not deteriorate to a level where we start looking at a turn-by-turn kind of presidency or become fixated with this formula of North and South. Some people would say, oh, this tribe has not had its chance, so they have to have their chance. Okay, those tribes that have had their chance, what have they done? So, is it a tribal matter in the 21st century?
I don’t think you were this fervent or the ACF was this fervent when it was said to be the turn of the North, so why being so fervent about this issue now?
For me, this is not the first time I started talking about it. I talked about it in 2019 through and all through to 2023. Before then, even from 2015, I have consistently said Muhammadu Buhari’s presidency was a disaster and there are so many other things he did. He was putting too many Northerners in the security sector for no benefit at all for the North. I thought Buhari’s experience is sufficient evidence that the idea of putting somebody from one part of the country to become president doesn’t work. It doesn’t make sense because what do you want him to do; to favour his part of the country and abandon others? This is very naive, to say the least. So, the point I’m making is that you can achieve inclusion but not at the expense of development. One way to do it, for example, is to recognize that there is no part of the country that has monopoly of competence. There are competent Nigerians in the South West, South East, South-South, North East, North West, and North Central. Why don’t you pick those competent Nigerians from different parts of the country to fix and run your country? Why do you go for people who are barely educated, people who are crooks and people who have no idea of where to take this country; people who cannot engage the world, who don’t even understand anything? All they know is primitive accumulation and consumption with very perverse tastes, simply running the country down.
So, this is why I said inclusion is a very, very critical aspect of governance. And you can achieve that and still achieve development by bringing in more competent people. Some technocrats can fix the energy and transportation sectors, and improve the entire infrastructure. The few that have come into government have been elbowed out. Some of them have been chased out of government because corruption will not accept the kind of thing that they want to do. And I feel very sad. I mean, we and quite several Nigerians, and by the way, across the board, not just the North, the East, the West, we stood up to the military during the time of Abacha.
***We fought for democracy. But this is not the kind of democracy we want to see. We want a democracy that takes cognizance of competence, recognizes knowledge in the 21st century as the greatest capital and tries to mobilize. And Nigeria has a lot of these competent and talented people.
Why don’t we bring them into governance? Why don’t they lead the process? Why do we need some politicians who don’t understand the world in the 21st century, and who have no record of doing anything competent anywhere, and all their life has been a life of sleaze and corruption?
And because they have accumulated money through those corrupt practices, they buy everybody off. And now, we have a National Assembly that is literally for sale. They cannot stand up to the president on anything, so this is the point. I think we have to change the conversation because we need a new narrative and we have to be constantly aware. And I keep repeating the fact that in 2030, just another five years from now, we’re going to be 300 million. Already today, we have more than 33 million people on the verge of starvation. These are figures from the United Nations bodies. We have a deficit in grains alone, more than 30 million metric tons last year alone. We have 20 million out of school children, the highest around the world. We have all these terrible statistics that we’re not addressing. These politicians are not discussing these matters. They are discussing their ambition, their turn, and who will be the next president. We have to form a coalition to chase President Bola Tinubu out, just like we did to President Goodluck Jonathan.
If you are saying that it’s time to do away with the system of zoning, then ultimately everything will be tipped in the favour of the north. How do you balance it out?
The constitution is already doing that because the House of Representatives is based on population. I think the presidential ticket should not be clouded by this north and south thing. I think we have to prioritize knowledge, competence, courage and character. The most important thing is character. Yes, the North, in terms of size, is 78 percent of the country’s size. You can put the whole states in the north in Niger State, and they will still have another space for the whole of the size of the north, even though there will be land remaining. Yes, that is it. This is geography. There is nothing we can do about that. But, the point I’m making is that we must not lose sight of the fact that this country is sinking. And if we continue with this north and south thing, we will lose sight of the fact that this country cannot develop. So, I think we need to change the conversation, and in doing so, yes, the votes come from the north. I mean, President Tinubu got over 60 percent of his votes from the north.
If it is a northerner that is the president, would you be talking this way, because in 2019 the ACF declared that it would only support candidates from the north for the presidency?
If you want the ACF’s position, then you should get the spokesman of the ACF to answer that question. I, as Usman Bugaje, have not made that statement and I don’t believe in it. I have made it very clear that while inclusion is important, I do not insist that a president must come from a particular part of the country beyond the fact that we should make sure we prioritize competence, character and the courage to do the right thing.
Are you saying if the president is a northerner, you would still be saying all of this?
I don’t know if you have followed what I’ve been saying. During the time of Buhari, I was at the forefront criticizing the way he was ruling. And in 2019, I didn’t support him. In 2023, I didn’t even support the All Progressives Congress (APC) and I made it very clear. So, the point I’m making is that, yes, there are people who say the kind of things you are saying, but I’m not one of them. I have my views. I have my understanding. I’m a northerner and I care about the north. I feel that every part of this country should be developed otherwise, we cannot have peace. You have to go global and you know very well that a lot of global institutions are trying to reduce inequality around the world, because whatever happens to one part of the world is going to affect the other part of the world. The globe has become a village. So, the point I’m making is, let us not continue with this conversation of north and south. Let us change the conversation and start a new conversation about how we get competent people with character and courage to run this country.
Is it that you will now support Atiku Abubakar and do you believe he can get the job done with all these traits and characteristics?
In 2019 and 2023, I supported Atiku Abubakar because of all the candidates that came out, he was the one that I thought was going to do it. That’s my own choice and everybody has his choice. I’m not an Atiku man. I’m not anybody’s man. When I was in the Action Congress of Nigeria (ACN), Atiku left and I remained. If I was his man, I would have left with him. So I’m my person and I don’t believe in anybody’s man. I believe that people should have the courage of their convictions. Therefore, I’m not going to be anybody’s man.
If Atiku runs again in 2027, would you support him?
No. In fairness to what I’ve been saying, if you have been listening, I have been saying that this idea of supporting one candidate with whatever combination of balancing of the ticket to go into the villa to lock the gates and then the wife would become the Queen Elizabeth the First and the children become some prince and princess of Saudi Arabia and start behaving the way they like, is outdated. We must not allow this country to fall into the hands of this kind of people. I would rather and I’m not talking about Atiku here, I’m talking about all of them; I would rather we do a collegiate leadership, where we get the best and the brightest, and there are a lot of them in this country, to come forward and salvage the country. That’s my view and I’ve expressed it openly in so many places. I’m not going to support someone because he has been an old politician who has been around for some time and then a combination of them. I am not. I have made this point very clear.
According to the publicity secretary of the ACF, Nigerians were sold an anti-corruption dummy in 2015 and from your assessment of the APC government, you’re not very satisfied. What are some of the lessons that we can learn from the areas you feel they haven’t performed very well as a government?
Well, my view about the APC government is very well known. I have made it very clear. I’ve put it in writing. It has appeared in papers and if you want the view of the ACF, it has a spokesman who can speak for it and probably defend whatever it says. But for me, the APC government from Buhari to date is a disaster for this country. And I’m not saying the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) is going to do any better. In fact, at the moment, and I’ve said this several times, I don’t trust the APC, the PDP, the All Progressives Grand Alliance (APGA) and the Labour Party. I don’t trust any of them as they stand at the moment. I don’t. What I think will work for Nigeria is, as I said, a collegiate leadership made up of the best and the brightest. And we did attempt to do that. If you can remember, we launched a platform called Rescue Nigeria Project. Ituah Ighodalo was part of it. Pat Utomi was part of it. Prof Attahiru Jega and several other people were part of it. What we were trying to do then, and we have not given up, was to get some of the best and the brightest people who can really fix the problems of this country, not politicians who are just out to make money and who do not even understand the terrain. They are oblivious of what is happening around the world. Therefore, they don’t read books. They don’t engage in debates. They don’t share information around the world. And they are fixated. And how do they distribute rice to these poor, ordinary Nigerians who have no idea of what is happening?
Former Governor El Rufai recently said President Tinubu might likely get President Goodluck Jonathan’s treatment. Why do you think these two southern presidents are the ones who are being perceived or predicted to do only one term and what do you think are the decisive factors in that?
I think you need to get back to the time of Jonathan and see the kind of position I’ve held. As far as I can remember, I’ve been consistent on this matter. If you cannot perform, you leave. What is the performance of the budget of 2024 for this particular president? My figure is that the budget performance was only 22 percent. Do you think these kinds of people should be allowed to continue? Now, forget that he’s from the south or the north or from anywhere. For me, wherever he comes from, if he cannot perform, he should leave, simple. So, this idea of saying because I’m from the north and I need a northerner cannot work. We have tried it and even those who tried it, have now seen through that this does not work. What will work for this country is people of character, competence and the courage to be able to do the right thing and there are many of such people. But the political culture and the political arrangement will not allow them. And you don’t wait for these politicians to allow you. We have to struggle to find our way. We must find a platform, mobilize the country and try. This incumbency that you’re talking about, look at what happened in Senegal.
If you did not support Atiku in the last election, who would you have supported next?
Honestly, I didn’t know Peter Obi enough to support him. I’ve been in this business for 25 years and I saw there are ways you measure people and size them up. So, the people I saw around him were not people that were ready to take the nation together. They were all reacting or angry about a particular part of the country. And they were all fuming and trying to go on a vengeance. So, that was my worry. I would have supported Prince Adewole Adebayo of the Social Democratic Party (SDP). He comes across to me as somebody who understands the terrain and this country. I don’t have a full background of what he has been doing, but as a person, he comes across as somebody who knows what he wants to do.
